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Upper Altissimo in Ibert

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Hello all, I have a quick question regarding the altissimo in Ibert's Concertino da Camera that I was hoping all you pros could help shed some light on for me- I'm currently a sophomore in college aiming for a bachelor's in performance, and this semester I'm working on the Ibert for my school's concerto competition. The piece is going great, but that altissimo in the beginning of the second movement is HARD!! As of today, it's not hard for me to "hit" those high E's and F's, but for all of you who are familiar with the piece, you have to be able to PLAY those notes, not hit them; especially in the second movement, because you are always so exposed... So I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on method towards working at getting those upper alt. notes to really speak. I don't care how hardcore or practice-intensive they are (if it works, it probably will be anyway). The second has such a beautiful part too, and it's killing me when I have to go up to those high parts on my horn...

arkofsax, Do realize that there are actually very few professionals who perform that portion completely 8va. Personally, I think playing it as written (without the 8va) places the melody in a very beautiful register of the instrument. This is no dis to Ibert, but you don't have to kill yourself over passage that often is merely showy. If you can master it, go for it. If not, no big deal. It's one of the most beautiful movements in our repertoire! Have fun with it. -- just a note, can anyone add a list of recordings perhaps where that passage is played 8va -- I can only think of two; one by Rascher and the other by Delangle...

I second that. I think that, even if you can play those notes in tune with a consistent vibrato at a reasonable dynamic, it'll still sound a bit "yucky." It's just kind of out of character for the rest of the tune.

[QUOTE=skrettaj1;396]arkofsax, Do realize that there are actually very few professionals who perform that portion completely 8va. Personally, I think playing it as written (without the 8va) places the melody in a very beautiful register of the instrument. This is no dis to Ibert, but you don't have to kill yourself over passage that often is merely showy. If you can master it, go for it. If not, no big deal. It's one of the most beautiful movements in our repertoire! Have fun with it. -- just a note, can anyone add a list of recordings perhaps where that passage is played 8va -- I can only think of two; one by Rascher and the other by Delangle...[/QUOTE] The use of the altissimo register is this passage actually brings out a descending melodic contour. If the altissimo register is not employed, the passage still works until the very end, where an ascending minor 7th disrupts Ibert's melody. I don't find that this passage is "showy" in any way, but uses the high register in a very musical fashion. I think that the many recordings that I've listened to in which the performer does not take this passage up in the proper register miss the point that Ibert is making: it is possible to play melodically and legato in this register of the saxophone. We are only cheating ourselves if we do not take up Ibert's challenge. Brian Kauth

[QUOTE=skrettaj1;396]arkofsax, -- just a note, can anyone add a list of recordings perhaps where that passage is played 8va -- I can only think of two; one by Rascher and the other by Delangle...[/QUOTE] John-Edward Kelley does a great job in his recording making the 2nd movement's altissimo sound beautiful, as opposed to crass, which is all too often the case.

I've listened to most of the popular recordings that have been put out for the piece, but the one that I'm most into is the Patricia/Robert Black rendition. The piece is played with all 8va parts, and no little virtuouso interludes thrown in to show off... everything is just the way I'm sure Ibert would've originally imagined it being played.

[QUOTE=arkofsax;401]I've listened to most of the popular recordings that have been put out for the piece, but the one that I'm most into is the Patricia/Robert Black rendition. The piece is played with all 8va parts, and no little virtuouso interludes thrown in to show off... everything is just the way I'm sure Ibert would've originally imagined it being played.[/QUOTE] I would agree - if you have to pick one recording to prove that altissimo can sound gorgeous, I would take Bob's second movement of the Ibert any day! That album is up on iTunes and is definitely worth buying. The Air and Scherzo is a lot of fun to listen to as well, but that Ibert makes my heart melt.... Depending how much time you have until the competition, I would focus all that extra attention elsewhere. There are so many little details and tricky parts throughout the piece that I would definitely make playing the 8va in the slow movement my last priority. As far as methods - if you're already comfortably hitting those notes, you pretty much just have to spend hours and hours practicing things like longtones and extended scales, arpeggios, and studies until they become second nature. In some ways, it's almost like learning a new instrument. I could be wrong though. If there's a better method to improving that register I'd love to find out! I'm also curious - what's your saxophone professor's take on that section, and approaching altissimo in general?

I've always thought of that section to be like harmonics on the violin; very effective and dramatic. The question is, will the audience be drawn in with excitement or squirm with discomfort.

I love the thrill of playing the altissimo passages in Ibert as much as anyone, and I do think that it is worthwhile to spend time working on perfecting them as much as you can. However, it's not the most important (or even one of the most important) part of the piece, so don't lose sight of the bigger picture. There are plenty of other elements to the Ibert that require a lot of woodshedding. While I do think it is important to work on the altissimo passages, in a competition setting, it would probably be best to opt for the 8ba unless in your practicing you never miss anything. I think the reasoning behind this would be that, while playing the section in the Larghetto 8va may sound impressive and even pretty, it probably is not going to figure greatly into the judges decision on your performance and is very risky, b/c one sour/out of tune/cracked note [I]will[/I] affect your score negatively. Unless you're hitting the notes 100% of the time under pressure and don't feel musically/emotionally constricted by being in that register, don't worry about it at the competition setting. Because of the two performers who both claimed to premiere the piece (Mule and Rascher), there exists 8va ad libitum for all the altissimo passages. I don't think it matters which may have been his original intention, as Ibert surely would have preferred a controlled performance in the lower octave than an unstable and musically inferior performance in the upper octave. In saying this, I'm not assuming that you're not capable of giving a controlled performance with the altissimo, but all would probably agree that it is very difficult to do so. A recording session with the chance for another take and a recital at which your friends and colleagues will understand any altissimo mishap are much different situations than a competition situation where the judges may be forced to rule you out b/c of a cracked altissimo note here and there.